is it still glitchless?

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cieply
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is it still glitchless?

Postby cieply » Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:17 pm

hey,
I have question pertaining to this run: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuXibOya1GE

I wanted to make a glitchless run of the game and because of that I wanted to ask your opinion about one particular thing: I found on yt run where guy skips a lot of way by jumping on a wall (very steep surface) - are they still glitches or are they not?

first is about 0m:25s and second about 0m:40s
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Re: is it still glitchless?

Postby Haraldzz » Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:00 pm

That is for you to decide. Purely technically, you shouldn't be able to do anything along those lines, as it isn't the path you are supposed to go and as such would classify as a glitch. Then again, pretty much every serious speed run takes advantage of very many inconsistencies in games, and unless considered "wrong" to some degree (See Final Fantasy III Credit warp/Job glitch, which allows you to finish the game in approximately 10 minutes where as speed runs without utilizing this single glitch take ~2 hours), are absolutely legitimate ways to speed run. If you want to do an absolutely pure speed run without utilizing the inconsistent collision detection and movement system of the engine, then I'd say that is a glitch. If you are willing to take some liberty in your work, it is absolutely fine.

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Re: is it still glitchless?

Postby cieply » Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:32 pm

Then again, pretty much every serious speed run takes advantage of very many inconsistencies in games, and unless considered "wrong" to some degree.
yes, that's the problem - what is that degree.
on http://speeddemosarchive.com/BladeOfDarkness.html physics is turned upside down
and despite all I cannot repeat these glitches consistently, if at all, and (again "and") if you look this video it doesn't look "normal" so that's the reason to create run that is not abusing these glitches and still look good

only problem is that it requires about 10 minutes per map (~15 for last 3) so it's going to be looong, in comparison to 0:44:59 from speeddemosarchive, so might be kind of boring, although I have few tricks that no one knows in back pocket

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Re: is it still glitchless?

Postby Haraldzz » Sun Feb 09, 2014 6:06 pm

I have few tricks that no one knows in back pocket
And what exactly is the chance that the usage of these tricks is not considered utilizing glitches/bugs?

Think of it like this:
Quake's and Half-Life's bunny hopping and strafe jumping is an anomaly generated by the engine. Clearly now the concept of these movement techniques are absolutely accepted, but not that much when the thing was brand new, and thus was classified as a glitch. If we say that bunnyhopping/strafe jumping is a glitch, how many speed runs would there be of Quake and Half-Life if all speed runs were "glitch-less"? None, is the answer.

My point I'm trying to make is that the definition of the word "glitch" can be highly varied. I'd say for speed run purposes, you are free to use whatever you see fit as it makes a more interesting play-through and a more interesting watch.

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Postby cieply » Tue Feb 11, 2014 5:41 pm

For some reason I would rather not do them - I simply cannot pull them off L))
maybe I will eventually learn first one but second... I don't, and anyway to me the second (run up the steep wall) is purely irrational and doesn't look "natural", so to speak.
There is also another point - there are for sure similar places in the game where such trick can be applied which would upset balance and pushed it to Tesseract's version that is not an option for me.
It is quite hard - I never thought that such thing could be such a hard core.

If I will consider any of them then then yes can be said for the first jump only - at least by me.

I can also give this run to the community like http://quake.speeddemosarchive.com/quake/qdq/ so anyone can improve particular level. It could be funny.
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Severance: Blade Of Darkness. Speedrun test @ Mines of Kelbe

Postby cieply » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:07 pm

what you think of this test run:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0m4kb7IyF8
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Postby cieply » Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:31 pm

4:36 - is that a cut between two recordings?
Yes, it is. The great orc before is so annoying that when I got blue gem well enough I saved it so I don't have to repeat it if failed afterwards


I tried to jump over first gap usig both your ways/methods but they don't work for me :(
willing or not I have to stick to "standard way"
Last edited by cieply on Thu Sep 01, 2016 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Xshathra shortcut

Postby cieply » Wed Jun 24, 2015 1:23 am

just read your post.

I also found it some time ago but didn't "publish" the discovery as I was recording the run (I still am but haven't finished yet - time isn't rubber and doesn't want to stretch). Now you found it independently without knowing about each others' work - looks like Nyquist–Shannon–Kotelnikov theorem L)
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Postby cieply » Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:54 pm

about counting time:
According to speeddemosarchive rules (which in my opinion should be followed as they are original for speedrunning community) when there is no in-game counter you start counting when you get control and stop when you loose it. So simply, when map loading screen goes you start counting and when it appears after finishing map (here will be 2DMap screen) you stop. Yo have to include all cutscenes (you skip them when you can) and that's what you call run's time.
Last edited by cieply on Wed Jul 01, 2015 2:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Marakamda

Postby cieply » Wed Jul 01, 2015 2:02 pm

2 minutes... you're good

I recorded 4 maps and fifth gives me little headache - seemingly simple but not as such in reality
I will publish them as soon as they (speeddemosarchive) will give me opinion about them

PS. for current speedrun related issues please refer to http://www.arokhslair.net/forum/viewtop ... =12&t=4008 where I started "Blade done quick 1.0" topic
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Re: is it still glitchless?

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Re: is it still glitchless?

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